# Help fix mo fb 4-8-18



## jamie

I don´t use Facebook but there is something that needs corrected on the Missouri morel hunting page and maybe somebody who uses Facebook will make the correction. I saw where somebody had asked if the recent cold weather would effect the morel hunting. The moderator of the page, whom one would expect to be knowledgeable on morel hunting replied saying to my surprise that ¨the cold weather would not have any negative effect on new growth as well as it would prolong the season and keep fresh anything that is already up.¨ I am dumbfounded in this reply as nothing could be any further from the truth. The fact is where morels have already started growing it depends on how cold it gets and for how long it stays cold as well as how far along in the season it is and how warm it has been to date. While a slight dip in temperatures for a short period of time may have minimal effects, a big drop in temperatures to the teens-twenties for an extended period of time like over-night is guaranteed to have dramatic negative effects on any future morel growth if there is any at all and it will most likely ruin anything that is up.

Another thing i also noticed was a soil temperature map was posted as a tool to use to know when to go hunting. A soil temperature map of this type is taken in a dirt field at 3-6¨ deep in full sun all day. A map of this type has virtually no correlation whatsoever with the ground temperatures in the micro climate where morels grow in the top half inch of soil where there is over 20 degrees difference in the ground temperatures of direct sun light and in the shade or even a shadow. 

I am sure everybody means good but incorrect information does not help anyone.


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## DirtyDog

jamie said:


> I don´t use Facebook but there is something that needs corrected on the Missouri morel hunting page and maybe somebody who uses Facebook will make the correction. I saw where somebody had asked if the recent cold weather would effect the morel hunting. The moderator of the page, whom one would expect to be knowledgeable on morel hunting replied saying to my surprise that ¨the cold weather would not have any negative effect on new growth as well as it would prolong the season and keep fresh anything that is already up.¨ I am dumbfounded in this reply as nothing could be any further from the truth. The fact is where morels have already started growing it depends on how cold it gets and for how long it stays cold as well as how far along in the season it is and how warm it has been to date. While a slight dip in temperatures for a short period of time may have minimal effects, a big drop in temperatures to the teens-twenties for an extended period of time like over-night is guaranteed to have dramatic negative effects on any future morel growth if there is any at all and it will most likely ruin anything that is up.
> 
> Another thing i also noticed was a soil temperature map was posted as a tool to use to know when to go hunting. A soil temperature map of this type is taken in a dirt field at 3-6¨ deep in full sun all day. A map of this type has virtually no correlation whatsoever with the ground temperatures in the micro climate where morels grow in the top half inch of soil where there is over 20 degrees difference in the ground temperatures of direct sun light and in the shade or even a shadow.
> 
> I am sure everybody means good but incorrect information does not help anyone.


*Well I sir am the moderator of which you speak. The cold we experienced was not here long enough to stop the season, it just simply was not, it was only cold over night. You also didn't quite get the quote right either. I said the small ones that are still covered with leaves will be fine as the ground below them is still warm and the leaves are kind of a blanket keeping the ones underneath insulated and any that had not come up yet would MOST likely not be effected by the cold as the ground temps did not fall that much, which they didn't. And as you can see if you read this page or get on FB the morels are still coming on strong in the southern part of the state and the mid central to north have yet to even really get started, only a few reports. 
I found a few Monday in Dallas county that were very fresh and had most likely came up several days earlier in the warm spell, most were perfect shape as they had been preserved by the cold, a few had freezer burnt tops but still had managed to grow more. 
As for the soil temp map everyone with a brain knows they are agricultural soil temps, it is intended to give folks an idea as to what the ground temps in their area are, a guideline if you will.* *I use a digital thermometer to take my own soil temps in the timber and river bottoms I hunt and even there I can get varying temps that fluctuate by as much as 7 to 10 degrees depending on sun exposure, we all know sand warms faster than dirt. I have picked morels in the snow on more than one occasion and so have many other people. *
You don't have to agree with me but from my experience I stand by what I said. I have been at this for a couple of decades and do feel that I have given and give good advice. *We do have 78,000 followers* that look to us yearly for good reliable information, which we provide.
Since you feel my comments were so far of base I must assume that you are not hunting morels any longer this year? Would that be correct or are you still looking?
One would also wonder if you "don't use Facebook" how in the world did you even see the post?
Happy hunting!


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## joemoris

Gotta say here in the middle of the state that the cold weather has crushed expectations. In my 30+ years of hunting, my logbooks median best day picking has been April 18th. Here on the 19th and I am sitting at 0 finds si far. Many friends are yet t pick one locally or anywhere North of us in St Louis. These cold temps are a disaster for our area


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## DirtyDog

joemoris said:


> Gotta say here in the middle of the state that the cold weather has crushed expectations. In my 30+ years of hunting, my logbooks median best day picking has been April 18th. Here on the 19th and I am sitting at 0 finds si far. Many friends are yet t pick one locally or anywhere North of us in St Louis. These cold temps are a disaster for our area


I am sorry to hear that. I picked over 100 in the middle of the state yesterday, all nice fresh grays about 2-3". As for north of STL that area really has not started yet, same for NWMO, NEMO. I am not trying to be an a$$ here my morel hunting friends but my experience both past and present must be different from yours.


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## joemoris

Right-season hasnt started yet, but on every year since 1992 excepting for 1994, by this time I would have 5lbs average and many years 10+ lbs on limited time afield. Now when I say a disaster, I dont mean that the mushrooms wont grow-they will, they always do. I mean that the season changes are a disaster for people who take time off work etc and that the mushrooms will require much more time to pick same amounts because of wasted days, and the season changes can be very hard to interpret. NY earliest find in STL is Feb 17th my latest in year was June 12th. This year is in competition with 1994 in terms of worst season, for me according to logs.
Warmest temp forecast for next 8 days = 66 F. Soil temps way down as well for this time. Bad news all around

**EDIT** Ive followed that page for years, thanks for the time you spend keeping it up


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## DirtyDog

I agree with you, season is not really started in the north parts. I still have hope for the middle though as I said I picked over 100 nice ones yesterday in mid central and it appears they are just really getting going. A lot of the younger/newer hunters who just started in the last 4 or 5 years are thinking we are way behind when in reality based on past years experience we are really close to "normal" whatever that means. I am in the Kansas City area and 10 years ago we never really got going until around tax day. I have great hopes for this year, to me it is setting up for the perfect storm, a lot like about 6 or 7 years ago when we killed it!
And as for the Facebook page, thank you for following! It takes 5 of us to keep it going during season. This year I am planning on "going live" when I find a mother load spot. We just had a give away where we gave away a very nice Morel Walking Stick, we may have another giveaway soon but not sure.
May your bags be full!


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## jamie

DirtyDog said:


> *Well I sir am the moderator of which you speak. The cold we experienced was not here long enough to stop the season, it just simply was not, it was only cold over night. You also didn't quite get the quote right either. I said the small ones that are still covered with leaves will be fine as the ground below them is still warm and the leaves are kind of a blanket keeping the ones underneath insulated and any that had not come up yet would MOST likely not be effected by the cold as the ground temps did not fall that much, which they didn't. And as you can see if you read this page or get on FB the morels are still coming on strong in the southern part of the state and the mid central to north have yet to even really get started, only a few reports.
> I found a few Monday in Dallas county that were very fresh and had most likely came up several days earlier in the warm spell, most were perfect shape as they had been preserved by the cold, a few had freezer burnt tops but still had managed to grow more.
> As for the soil temp map everyone with a brain knows they are agricultural soil temps, it is intended to give folks an idea as to what the ground temps in their area are, a guideline if you will.* *I use a digital thermometer to take my own soil temps in the timber and river bottoms I hunt and even there I can get varying temps that fluctuate by as much as 7 to 10 degrees depending on sun exposure, we all know sand warms faster than dirt. I have picked morels in the snow on more than one occasion and so have many other people. *
> You don't have to agree with me but from my experience I stand by what I said. I have been at this for a couple of decades and do feel that I have given and give good advice. *We do have 78,000 followers* that look to us yearly for good reliable information, which we provide.
> Since you feel my comments were so far of base I must assume that you are not hunting morels any longer this year? Would that be correct or are you still looking?
> One would also wonder if you "don't use Facebook" how in the world did you even see the post?
> Happy hunting!


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## jamie

My post was not an attack on you personally as you clearly made it out to be. I simply stated fact based on 45 years of hunting. First off, one needs to understand the 3 cold snaps after fruiting were cold and long and so was the hot 87 degree day. Lets see, this started on the 8th, almost 2 weeks ago. Do you still stand by your opinionated, baseless assumptions? May I refer you to the Facebook page you speak of. Read all the recent posts. This is prime season and what do the posts say? Rather than get offended and waste your efforts attempting to justify your personal assumptions and worrying about me, maybe you could post a few links to other sites that can help hunters with things they need to know like how to identify trees or how morels live in micro-climates that no soil temp map can show you or even of how morels spores are wind blown and they can grow anywhere there is limestone and a judicious tree, or maybe even tell them that morels dont grow when the temps are over 80. You cant go wrong providing any truthful information. You can always post a disclaimer.....o yeah, you can find me still picking in Missouri if you go to lower elevations where the temps didn`t reach 80.
As for the Facebook deal,it appears the vast majority of members are from other states who are just watching to see when they need to start looking and a handful of newbies. Due to confidentiality laws of which I am bound, I am unable to elaborate as to why I do not use it. clik/clik...


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## jack

You want to argue about Facebook, go to Facebook !!!


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## the original morelmama

Can someone tell me how to start a thread for the St. Louis area for 2018? Any help would be deeply appreciated. I've been hunting morels for close to 60 years so I'm hopefully better at hunting mushrooms than posting on the internet.


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## morelsxs

Click on the state you'd like to create a thread on. Look in the upper right hand corner and it will state 'Post New Thread'. Click there.


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## the original morelmama

morelsxs said:


> Click on the state you'd like to create a thread on. Look in the upper right hand corner and it will state 'Post New Thread'. Click there.


Geesh - so simple. How did I not see that. Thanks so much for your help! Good hunting!


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## kb

Dirty D, glad you got some to eat. I'm going to need to chase some rain maybe tomorrow it looks like. Went up across the border in Ia. today visiting a relative so I took a 5 mile walkabout in the timber. The may apples were just poking through the ground. This April may set an all time low temp. record for the month, at least Kc north. Which is why we are still waiting. Anyone have any asparagus up yet north of the river? Jamie, I don't know were you picked up that stuff about no morels germinating over air temps. of 80. its just not true. Your opinion. Ever hunt the Flint Hills? If 80 shut them down there they would never grow. I can go with the soil temps getting to high, not air.


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## jamie

kb said:


> Dirty D, glad you got some to eat. I'm going to need to chase some rain maybe tomorrow it looks like. Went up across the border in Ia. today visiting a relative so I took a 5 mile walkabout in the timber. The may apples were just poking through the ground. This April may set an all time low temp. record for the month, at least Kc north. Which is why we are still waiting. Anyone have any asparagus up yet north of the river? Jamie, I don't know were you picked up that stuff about no morels germinating over air temps. of 80. its just not true. Your opinion. Ever hunt the Flint Hills? If 80 shut them down there they would never grow. I can go with the soil temps getting to high, not air.


 Yep. It is the ground temp that causes the morels to quit fruiting. However, that secret ground temp is reached only when the air temp is 80 degrees or above. Just like the cold snaps, it all depends on how long it lasts and how high the air temp is. If you ever see new morels in a place that had a day of 80 degrees you better document it because its a first. As they only fruit in warmer temps, the big open cell yellows is your sign that the temps have gotten to high and the morels are over in that area.

 CEDARS Cedar trees can not produce morels as they are not a dedicious tree. The reason you find morels around cedars is because the morel spores are wind blown which means they can grow anywhere. Think of the zillions of tiny spores as light snow. When the snow is blown by the wind, it piles up on the down wind side of obstacles(cedar trees). Ever find morels in CRP grass with no trees around?


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## kb

Nice, Here is the problem with your logic as I see it. First, those morels did not come up with those wide pores but time up and heat will cause it. Yes the hotter it is the smaller the wide pore morel. As for cedars when we picked them the entire cedar timber was filled with morels. Many had rings of morels around their drip line if they were out it the open. That drought year all of the cedar and cottonwood in the Flint Hills went nuts. I agree with the widespread spores and limestone soil, but i do think there is some relationship there with cedar. As you can tell i am bored. The lack of rain in N. Mo. is going to cause a poor season, I am going to need to do a lot of driving to have any fun. I imagine the truth on morels is that I learn something new all the time, so I listen to what everyone says and then see if it applies. At almost 60 I have seen morels in so may weird places that I expect anything. I still consider the elms and cottons the best but have learned to keep and open mind. Nice discussion Jamie.


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## huntergatherer

of course cedars can and do produce morels, so can conifers


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## greys

jamie said:


> Yep. It is the ground temp that causes the morels to quit fruiting. However, that secret ground temp is reached only when the air temp is 80 degrees or above. Just like the cold snaps, it all depends on how long it lasts and how high the air temp is. If you ever see new morels in a place that had a day of 80 degrees you better document it because its a first. As they only fruit in warmer temps, the big open cell yellows is your sign that the temps have gotten to high and the morels are over in that area.
> 
> CEDARS Cedar trees can not produce morels as they are not a dedicious tree. The reason you find morels around cedars is because the morel spores are wind blown which means they can grow anywhere. Think of the zillions of tiny spores as light snow. When the snow is blown by the wind, it piles up on the down wind side of obstacles(cedar trees). Ever find morels in CRP grass with no trees around?


Jamie ~ It is the ground temp that when it warms up to far, they do stop fruiting, However this is when the ground temp is upper 60's to low 70's. The air temp does not indicate when the season ends, ONLY the ground temp dictates that. With that being said i don't know where you got the 80 degree number from, but i'd forget about it. If your saying the air hits 80 and their done, okay leave more Morels for me. If your saying they are done when the ground temp hits 80, It never gets that warm.... let's face it, Not everyone is cut out from 6 hour hunts through the timber.


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## jamie

greys said:


> Jamie ~ It is the ground temp that when it warms up to far, they do stop fruiting, However this is when the ground temp is upper 60's to low 70's. The air temp does not indicate when the season ends, ONLY the ground temp dictates that. With that being said i don't know where you got the 80 degree number from, but i'd forget about it. If your saying the air hits 80 and their done, okay leave more Morels for me. If your saying they are done when the ground temp hits 80, It never gets that warm.... let's face it, Not everyone is cut out from 6 hour hunts through the timber.


$1000 bet for GREYS & KB EACH Cedar trees CAN NOT produce morels. Only dedicious trees can produce morels of which cedar trees are not. Please paypal the 1000 to my email address. Think where does the windblown snow pile up around a cedar-spores do the same thing. Cheap lesson bet you never forget...Buyer is late-gonna be 70lbs for sale in a few mins if they dont show.


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## jamie

CORRECTION: Please excuse my oversight. The bet should have been addressed to the two whom replied that cedars can produce morels which was huntergatherer and kb. Greys was mistakenly listed by me and I accept full responsabality for the mistake.


greys said:


> Jamie ~ It is the ground temp that when it warms up to far, they do stop fruiting, However this is when the ground temp is upper 60's to low 70's. The air temp does not indicate when the season ends, ONLY the ground temp dictates that. With that being said i don't know where you got the 80 degree number from, but i'd forget about it. If your saying the air hits 80 and their done, okay leave more Morels for me. If your saying they are done when the ground temp hits 80, It never gets that warm.... let's face it, Not everyone is cut out from 6 hour hunts through the timber.


I want to apologize for mistakenly offering you a bet on cedars when your post did not mention them. I agree on the temps. You are welcome to hunt behind me or with me anytime. I dont pick any open cell or over 5 in blondes and if I am doing my job correctly, I shouldn`t even see any like that.


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## kb

Well Jamie, I guess you owe me then because I have a picture of over #90 picked on nothing but cedar. So I have my proof and an eye witness. Go tell the guys in Okl. morels don't grow on cedar. Just your opinion, it is not worth more than anybody else. I don't even need the 1000, keep it you may need it.


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## terrysapp

jamie said:


> CORRECTION: Please excuse my oversight. The bet should have been addressed to the two whom replied that cedars can produce morels which was huntergatherer and kb. Greys was mistakenly listed by me and I accept full responsabality for the mistake.
> 
> I want to apologize for mistakenly offering you a bet on cedars when your post did not mention them. I agree on the temps. You are welcome to hunt behind me or with me anytime. I dont pick any open cell or over 5 in blondes and if I am doing my job correctly, I shouldn`t even see any like that.


What do you mean when you say you don't pick any open cell or over 5 in? Thanks. Terry


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## DirtyDog

How about cactus?


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## DirtyDog

I'll just leave this right here......


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## pirogue66

Found about 50 in SEMO today....Scott CO...Blacks ,and small yellows.....way late season.
Also found two timber rattlers !


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## supplyguy1973

kb said:


> Nice, Here is the problem with your logic as I see it. First, those morels did not come up with those wide pores but time up and heat will cause it. Yes the hotter it is the smaller the wide pore morel. As for cedars when we picked them the entire cedar timber was filled with morels. Many had rings of morels around their drip line if they were out it the open. That drought year all of the cedar and cottonwood in the Flint Hills went nuts. I agree with the widespread spores and limestone soil, but i do think there is some relationship there with cedar. As you can tell i am bored. The lack of rain in N. Mo. is going to cause a poor season, I am going to need to do a lot of driving to have any fun. I imagine the truth on morels is that I learn something new all the time, so I listen to what everyone says and then see if it applies. At almost 60 I have seen morels in so may weird places that I expect anything. I still consider the elms and cottons the best but have learned to keep and open mind. Nice discussion Jamie.


I pick in cedars all the time


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## jamie

DIRTY DOG,SUPPLY GUY,KB- Let us not get confused now. I clearly stated that you can pick morels around cedars as the cedar trees are semi-solid and thus they drop the wind blown morel spores just like the fine wind blown snow gets dropped by the cedar trees in the winter. Cedars are a great place to pick morels simply for this reason. HOWEVER, CEDAR TREES CAN NOT PRODUCE MORELS-which was what the issue is and the bet is about) ONLY DEDISCOUS(spelling is not correct but it means trees with leaves) TREES CAN PRODUCE MORELS> CEDAR TREES AND ALL PINE TREES ARE NOT A DEDISCIOUS TREE. That is not my opinion but scientific fact.


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## jack

I have to totally disagree with not finding Morels in Pines. I find Blacks & White Morels under White Pine and Red Pine all the time.









These are under White Pine, as you can tell by the needles & Pine Cones.


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## jamie

Hey Jack-Always good to see the moderator chime in. I dont think that anyone doesn`t agree that you can find morels under cedar or pine trees almost anywhere. Thats pretty much a given. Please just dont say that you think the Pine trees produce the morels. That is what the issue here is, If cedar trees (or any pine tree) can produce morels? Notice how when everyone figured out maybe I better look this up and see if Ole Jamie knows what he is talking about or not. They read that just like Jamie said, "It is a scientific fact: Only dedicous(dont know correct spelling and neither does spell check) trees can produce morels and no other trees can and its nothing but crikets. Not one was man enough to acknowledge they were wrong. There is a word for them kind of folks but it escapes me at the moment. All one needs to remember is morel spores are windblown and can grow about anywhere-even under cedars or as you said, pines-they just dont come from them.

Dirty dog was the best. Among others he(or she as registered here) said was, after offending 70k followers of a page he moderates (if you can imagine) over use of a soil temperature map were "We all know that sand warms up before black dirt" and "Please pray for all the farmers who havent got their fields disk(ed-was omitted) yet" Everybody was laughing so hard over them explaining how they use a digital thermometer,I dont think anybody cared to waste the time to tell em that black warms before white or tan or that its the moisture why you find morels around creeks and rivers before you find them in other areas or the fact that those un-discd field are already planted and 99% of farmers use no tile and dont work or disc the ground. Those who dont use no till do the discing in the fall after harvest

Your opinion is always welcomed and thank you for allowing us to share this vital info. If time allows, please chime back in after you have researched the issue at hand...


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## jamie

Just when you think it couldn`t get any better. I click on the 2018 thread to see what is reported and the last reply is from... you guessed it. Ole DD is still at it. And I quote,"morels don`t have roots." Now this is getting alittle ridiculous...


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## greys

Wow, I missed the pow wow! This is more exciting than the Iowa threads, Don't think he is a serious hunter... seems to be trolling. I would have to agree the morels only comes from Desidious trees. Sounds good to me jamie, if you ever find your self in central iowa during mushroom season, let me know.


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## DirtyDog

*Morel Mushroom Monitoring in a Colorado Burn Area: June - September, 2003*

*by Holly Miller*


*Introduction*

Due to the number and intensity of wildfires that occurred in southwestern Colorado in 2002, specifically in the San Juan National Forest, morel mushrooms were expected to grow in record numbers in 2003. Forest managers anticipated a large influx of morel hunters in search of the prized mushroom. In order to monitor the morel mushroom harvest, permits were required for collection. A small-scale study was also conducted by Forest Service personnel on the abundance of morels and the success of mushroom hunters.

*Description of Study Area*

The San Juan National Forest is located in southwestern Colorado, and is divided into three ranger districts: Pagosa, Columbine, and Dolores. The largest of the 2002 wildfires within the forest occurred in the Columbine Ranger District--the Missionary Ridge Fire. This fire burned approximately 70,000 acres throughout several vegetation types, including mixed conifer, ponderosa pine, spruce-fir, and aspen. The fire varied in intensity throughout the burn area. For the purpose of this study, all vegetation types were searched, although an emphasis was put on mixed conifer and pure aspen stands.

*Methodology*

A selective search of nine areas within several vegetation types was conducted by Forest Service personnel on June 10 and 11, 2003. Several of these sites were revisited on June 26, 2003. Search areas were chosen by vegetation type and burn intensity. Most of the search areas were located east of Vallecito Reservoir, one was conducted west of Vallecito Reservoir, and one search was conducted west of Lemon Reservoir, along the Young’s Canyon Trail (Figure 1).


Figure 1: Morel Mushroom Locations within the Missionary Ridge Burn Area

Searches were conducted by hiking within the selected areas and seeking out areas of moderate to high intensity ground fires within ponderosa pine and aspen forests. Areas of concentration also included intense ground burns underneath downed ponderosa pine and aspen logs. Evidence of morel gathering was also looked for within these areas. Previous gathering is often indicated by “cuttings,” which are the remaining morel stems left after the cap has been removed, usually by a knife.

Information on morel occurrence was also gathered from other forest service crews working in the area and familiar with the identification of the mushroom.


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## DirtyDog

*Results*

_East of Vallecito Reservoir_

Seven areas varying in size, vegetative component, and burn intensity were searched for morel mushrooms east of Vallecito Reservoir (Figure 1) on June 10, 2003. These areas are all accessible from FR 602 and FR 603. Morel mushrooms were found in two of the search areas.

The largest patch of morels in this area was found in Gut Canyon, where they were growing in a mixed conifer stand that had experienced low to moderate burn intensity. The slope of the area was approximately 30 percent, while the aspect was east-northeast. Elevation was approximately 8,000 feet. The morels were found at the base of a burnt ponderosa pine stump and burnt aspen log, where the ground litter had been completely consumed in the immediate area (Figure 2). Twenty-four black morels were found in this area. The mushrooms ranged in size from one inch to five inches. All of the mushrooms were partially dried out, and were presumed to have emerged approximately one week before they were discovered. Moisture content of the soil seemed to be low, but the site was approximately 75 feet upslope of the creek, and the immediate microclimate was cool.









Figure 2: Habitat where several black morels were found in the Gut Canyon area

This area was revisited on June 26, 2003, and three black morels were found underneath the burnt aspen log. All were approximately one inch in size and were very dry.

Another patch of morels was found east of Vallecito Reservoir, approximately 100 feet west of FR 603. The vegetation type was mixed conifer, on a 20 percent slope with a northwest aspect. Elevation was approximately 7,800 feet, and the intensity of the burn was moderate in this area. Five black morels were found growing underneath a fallen, burnt ponderosa pine log where a ground fire had occurred and the litter was removed (Figure 3). Morels in this area were approximately five inches in size. These morels were also somewhat dried out and had probably emerged a week prior to their discovery.









Figure 3: Morels found growing underneath a burnt ponderosa pine log


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## DirtyDog

_West of Vallecito Reservoir_

On June 10, 2003, the area east of Freeman Park, which is located at the end of FR 809 (Ho Hum Drive), was surveyed (Figure 1). The area was characterized by a ridge-top mixed conifer forest interspersed with pure aspen stands, and the burn intensity was high. Elevation was approximately 8,400 feet.

Two black morels were found growing in close proximity underneath burnt aspen and ponderosa pine logs (Figure 4). The overstory in the immediate area consisted of aspen and ponderosa pine, with a few scattered white fir. The slope was 5 percent and the aspect was slightly east. The morels were approximately 2 inches tall and had emerged within the past few days, as they were relatively moist.









Figure 4: This morel was found in a high intensity burn area

This area was revisited on June 26, 2003, and morels were not found. However, the slopes immediately southwest of Freeman Park were searched, and 34 black morels were found (Figure 5). Burn intensity in the area was low to moderate. Slopes were 30 percent with a north aspect, and spruce, fir, and aspen dominated the canopy. The morels were located at the bottom of the slope and adjacent to a drainage, where the microclimate was cool and moist. Elevation was approximately 8,500 feet. Most morels were very dry, but a small percentage of morels that were found near the drainage bottom were moist and had emerged recently. This area was revisited on August 5, 2003, and only one dried morel was found.









Figure 5:
Over thirty morels were growing in this low intensity burn area

_West of Lemon Reservoir – Young’s Canyon Trail_

The area immediately adjacent to Young’s Canyon Trail was thoroughly searched for morel mushrooms on June 11, 2003. The trail winds through spruce-fir forest interspersed with pure aspen stands for approximately 3 miles. Aspects range from south to east while slopes vary from 20 to 30 percent. Moderate to high burn intensity is found in most areas. Elevations range from 8,200 feet to 10,000 feet.

Morels were not found in this area. The location seemed favorable, and morels may emerge at a later date due to the higher elevation. The area also seemed dry and more rainfall is probably necessary for production.

_Wallace Lake Area_

In the first week of September 2003, approximately two pounds of morels were found by a Forest Service timber crewmember while working in the Wallace Lake Area (Figure 1). Morels were located on northeast and northwest facing slopes, within an area dominated by spruce-fir and aspen. Elevation was approximately 9,500 feet. Frequent rainfall and moderate temperatures at this high elevation probably contributed to the late season occurrence of these mushrooms.



*Discussion*

Morels were found in four of the nine search areas. Most of these areas were characterized by mixed conifer with aspen or spruce-fir-aspen vegetation types that had experienced low to moderate burn intensities. All of the morels within the mixed conifer were found near or underneath ponderosa pine or aspen logs that had fallen previous to the wildfire, and which then burned intensely enough to partially consume the logs and clear the ground of duff and litter. Morels in the spruce-fir-aspen were found in areas of low to moderate burn intensity underneath live white firs.

All of the morels found were growing in the cooler microclimates within the forest. All of the mushrooms were found on northeast or northwest aspects, adjacent to drainages, and/or underneath logs. Morels that were underneath logs and in stump holes were the largest mushrooms that were found.

*Summary*

Sixty-six morels were found within four separate search areas within the Missionary Ridge Fire burn area. Additionally, two pounds of morels were found outside of these initial search areas, but within the Missionary Ridge Fire burn area. Habitat consisted of two different types: mixed conifer and spruce-fir-aspen. The lower elevation, mixed conifer stands had experienced low to moderate burn intensities, and was situated on northeast to northwest facing slopes. Morels were found within the cooler, moist microclimate within this habitat type. Morels in the spruce-fir-aspen stands were found in similar areas, but were found in higher densities in this habitat type--probably because the area received more rainfall and/or retained a higher moisture level.

Morels were found at increasing elevations throughout the summer. In early June, several morels were found from 7,800 to 8,400 feet; however, many were dried and had been emerged for at least a week prior to discovery. In late June, a larger quantity of morels, ranging from dry to very fresh, were found at 8,500 feet. In September, two pounds of fresh morels were found at 9,500 feet. This trend is probably influenced by increasing temperatures and rainfall throughout the elevation range as the summer progresses (Figure 6).


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## DirtyDog

Jamie you are making a fool of yourself.


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## jamie

ROTFLMAO Please dont put me in the same class as you dirty dog. Funny as hell how you try and post a bunch of pages from 03 to hide the real truth of what a true fool you are. When you pick 1/10 the morels I do then you can school me. Until then, get in the damn timber and stfu. Nobody wants to hear your baseless, idiotic opinions that are not true. Waste some elses time.
Greys. Glad to see you agree on the cedars. I am hunting across river from Iowa now and I will be in Sioux City tonite. Go to Winnavegas after dark and look for the guy passed out at the end of the buffet. I run with the skins from Winnebago. Now them boys can do some huntin. You are welcome to hunt with me anytime. Bring dirty with ya....


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## jamie

OMG Dirty just wont accept scientific fact that cedars and pines CAN NOT produce morels. Yes morels are picked in burns and around and under cedars and pine trees. SO? SO WHAT? The morels spores may have landed and grew there. Again, SO what? That does not mean the morels came from them. Dude, based solely on your posts, I must admit. you have got to be hands down just about the dumbest individual I have ever not met. Should we be surprised... How about go moderate a fishing site- they tell alot of tall tales.


Dam that rain feels good. Can you hear the morels? Dying to see what the reply to this one is. "Rain is not wet" I'm betting...


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## DirtyDog

Thank you Jamie. You are right, I am a hapless fool otherwise I would not have engaged you regarding morel mushroom. You are obviously the smartest person here with an obvious wealth of knowledge about morels. 
Good day,
Sam


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## Yukon Cornelius

Trolling and trash talking on a site dedicated to mushroom hunting? Now I've seen it all. Social discourse truly has devolved into the 7th circle of hell. 

Oh, and it's "deciduous."


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## jack

I don't accept it either. I'm thinking your references are out dated, just like 98% of the Mushroom Identification Books. Every mushroom has a host, I find hundreds of morels in the middle of a 20 square mile area of nothing but pine. I'm in Michigan and the Ash trees are gone, just like most of the Elm trees. Now they are turning up under Maple and mixed Maple, Oak and Beech as well.
One of my best books is Ascomycete Fungi of North America by Michael.W Beug, Alan E. Bessette and Arleen R. Bessette, copyright and published in 2014. This book lists over 30 species of Morchella, with sub-species showing up all the time. Things are changing all the time especially with the DNA Sequencing, and a large contributor being Alan Rockefeller, out on the West Coast.


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## DirtyDog

jack said:


> I don't accept it either. I'm thinking your references are out dated, just like 98% of the Mushroom Identification Books. Every mushroom has a host, I find hundreds of morels in the middle of a 20 square mile area of nothing but pine. I'm in Michigan and the Ash trees are gone, just like most of the Elm trees. Now they are turning up under Maple and mixed Maple, Oak and Beech as well.
> One of my best books is Ascomycete Fungi of North America by Michael.W Beug, Alan E. Bessette and Arleen R. Bessette, copyright and published in 2014. This book lists over 30 species of Morchella, with sub-species showing up all the time. Things are changing all the time especially with the DNA Sequencing, and a large contributor being Alan Rockefeller, out on the West Coast.


tv
Exactly Jack good information thank you


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## jamie

Not a troll. Been hunting for longer than you probably are old. Took me over 30 years of hunting to become one with mother nature and to get a understanding of the morel. Not a year goes by that I dont learn something new. I was just trying to share usefull info when this all started. Anyway, nothing here is outdated. No matter where one is, morel spores are windblown-could have been there for hundred years or more and the trees that caused it all could have been dead and gone before any of us were born. Regardless, Trees in the Pine tree family do not have the necessary makeup to produce or host morels. This fact will never change ever. Think what you will. I am willing to lay a grand on it and anyone is welcome to take the bet. This should tell how much you believe in your opinions. I applaud DD for finally posting a true fact. Dont forget the bet-anyone of you-1000.


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## trotline

Did I win!!


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## Yukon Cornelius

I'm 41 and this is my first real year of morel hunting (always been more into gardening). I readily concede that I know next to nothing beyond what I've read in books (or on this site) about the subject which is why I did not join the fray in your ongoing debate. But your discourse has now drifted away from mushrooms and into an area over which I have a decided expertise (probably more so than anyone on this site). You see, I have nearly 40 years' experience in being an a-hole (it's genetic with my family), so I can readily identify another when I encounter one. You may not be a troll, but you're definitely an a-hole. Those are facts you can take to the bank.


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## yocham85

I know one thing for sure dirty dog and Jamie DO NOT like each other. It seems every year the scienific facts change on morels. Some say greys whites and yellows are all the same mushroom. Some say they are all diffent. I say I don' care as long as I find a bunch.


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## DirtyDog

yocham85 said:


> I know one thing for sure dirty dog and Jamie DO NOT like each other. It seems every year the scienific facts change on morels. Some say greys whites and yellows are all the same mushroom. Some say they are all diffent. I say I don' care as long as I find a bunch.


_I don't know Jamie. If you read my first response to his you will see I was polite and courteous in my response. He the went off on a tangent that has now lasted about 3 weeks. He just won't quit. He is convinced he is right and he is not going to be persuaded by anyone or any information contrary to his beliefs._
He claims to be a great morel hunter who is pulling in poundage but I have seen nothing out of him besides vitriol and contempt.
_He perhaps is not aware that KB is one of the most respected morel hunters in the Midwest (sorry to put you out there KB but I feel this is a fair statement)_
Jamie is set on being right and there is no information in the world that would change his mind. Dr. Kou has stated that morels grow with conifers and so have many other real experts. The fire burns out west are proof enough alone to any open minded person to acknowledge that morels do indeed grow under and around pines, coniferous trees.
I to agree as long as my bag is full IDC what tree it was.


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## DirtyDog

trotline said:


> [ATTAC
> 
> 
> Yukon Cornelius said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 41 and this is my first real year of morel hunting (always been more into gardening). I readily concede that I know next to nothing beyond what I've read in books (or on this site) about the subject which is why I did not join the fray in your ongoing debate. But your discourse has now drifted away from mushrooms and into an area over which I have a decided expertise (probably more so than anyone on this site). You see, I have nearly 40 years' experience in being an a-hole (it's genetic with my family), so I can readily identify another when I encounter one. You may not be a troll, but you're definitely an a-hole. Those are facts you can take to the bank.
> 
> 
> 
> H]5964[/ATTACH]
> View attachment 5963
> Did I win!!
> View attachment 5962
Click to expand...


LOL, well stated!


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## DirtyDog

trotline said:


> View attachment 5964
> View attachment 5963
> Did I win!!
> View attachment 5962


This information will not change his mind. It is accurate but will not be accepted none the less.


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## elitenaut

Ok first of all, Jamie is retarded. Second of all, if you have any science based major, its explicitly stated science is never "fact". Its research that has been gathered and affirmed by other studies. Many times people try to recreate results and it fails. In many studies/research it succeeds. Science is NEVER fact. 100 years ago they were doing lobotomies and it was accepted by "science". Thirdly, I pick mushrooms in many similar places each year, this year in Missouri has taught me that the leaf litter is important because of the dry season of the last two weeks. But you know where I've been finding mine? In the forest, surrounded by thousands of roots. They live off the roots. Who really knows what roots the morels are living off of? Back to the whole fact thing... If morels were understood to the point of "fact" we would have morel farms. There are not any farms because there are so many factors that go into the when and where they are gonna grow its not easily predictable. One thing here is for sure though, Jamie is the guy who nobody wants to go hunting with. FACT.


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## DirtyDog

elitenaut said:


> Ok first of all, Jamie is retarded. Second of all, if you have any science based major, its explicitly stated science is never "fact". Its research that has been gathered and affirmed by other studies. Many times people try to recreate results and it fails. In many studies/research it succeeds. Science is NEVER fact. 100 years ago they were doing lobotomies and it was accepted by "science". Thirdly, I pick mushrooms in many similar places each year, this year in Missouri has taught me that the leaf litter is important because of the dry season of the last two weeks. But you know where I've been finding mine? In the forest, surrounded by thousands of roots. They live off the roots. Who really knows what roots the morels are living off of? Back to the whole fact thing... If morels were understood to the point of "fact" we would have morel farms. There are not any farms because there are so many factors that go into the when and where they are gonna grow its not easily predictable. One thing here is for sure though, Jamie is the guy who nobody wants to go hunting with. FACT.


Exactly. When I was in high school we were taught the FACT that there were only 9 planets. Probably a flat earther. 
In Georgia the morels grow best around privet bushes, not trees. In Texas juniper is a go to. Jamie also claims to have not attacked me personally he just wanted to make sure I know he is right. Jamie is the classic key board hero. Making statements like " I have been hunting for longer than you are old, " if you could pick 1-10th of the morels I do". He also appears from his comments to be a mushroom seller, to which my signature on my comments explains that situation, and he has proven me correct.


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## P.C. Finder

I just enjoy being out, enjoying the woods, and finding mushrooms. Also love to hunt and fish and the trash talking here probably isn't necessary. (Get *your* shit done and *enjoy* the outdoors). Platte County,Mo is producing, found a little over 20 shrooms weighing in at a little over 16oz.


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## jamie

The only fact is I have said all along that you can pick morels around and under cedars and pines. I even explained why they are there. You clowns clearly have heard exactly what you want to hear when you read something. Not one of you have posted anything that shows or says that the Pine tree family including cedars can produce morels. All I have done is stated what the entire world of science has proven. FACT Opinions are like assholes and a few of you have clearly shown that. Be a man and put money where your mouth is and take my bet and prove me and the entire science world wrong....or go follow DD and let him(her as registered here) tell you how morels have no roots or how tan sand warms faster than black dirt...about forgot, the great kb you spoke of, he bought my buddys morels and then wanted his money back because he found some others. Sounds like you guys should get along well. The bet stands. Keep on clickin cause I`m a pickin. Yep, even under cedars.


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## kb

got bored in January and looked back on this old argument. A few things if anyone reads it. One, I must have been real bored. Two, Jamie does not know me. I have bought morels once in my life, and those were mountain blacks from a friend who picked them in Mont. and I helped sell them for him around the 4th of July one time. I got them for my brother to see how he liked them. I will sell you some though Jamie when your prices come up. Three, this argument will just go around in circles. Jamie has no proof they don't grow on conifers either. Easy to bet when neither side can prove otherwise. All opinions. Like the dude in Michigan stated, they sure love conifers up there. Four, they grow anywhere it seems, just more likely in some places. I will go with the limestone though regardless of the ground cover. Fifth, DD is a great dude, never met in person but many talks on the phone. 7th, Hope springs eternal for a great year, this being the beginning of 2020.


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## kb

Still bored. Watched the videos of them growing morels in China. Interesting. Still can't do it consistent enough to fill the market yet, but who knows what the future holds. Wonder if they taste the same fresh? I guess its hard to ship fresh ones from China in a cost productive manner? Anything that does not biodegrade quickly can and will be shipped from China though. I guess their limestone plateau regions turn out large quantities of wild morels that end up going to Europe. Just read a book on black market truffles from China that are fake and are sold in Europe as true black truffles from S. Europe in restaurants. Money and greed know no limits.


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## Mushroom Geologist

Morels do grow under conifers. I have a large stand of cedars and no hard woods around. That area grows morels and they only pop up late in season. Not sure why.


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## kb

the later growing of morels in the cedar most think is due to the cooler ground temps. from the denser shade. I know in some spots where I picked in cedar the sun never gets through so it was like permanent twilight. But who really knows. In the same spots I found fresh morels around cedars all alone in the middle of a field. It seems they like the really wet years also in the cedar, but that could apply to morels everywhere i guess. Where are you located MG?


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## MO ShroomSniper

I must say, reading this thread turned into quite the clockgobbler. Incidentally, I've got $1k burning a hole in my pocket. It goes to the guy that can prove coniferous trees are incapable of hosting morels


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## Yukon Cornelius

And nothing has changed on my front... I'm still an a-hole (and so is Jamie).


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